Hedyot started his much anticipated Better Know a Kofer series with Sara, a former orthodox BY teacher turned Christian, wait, Catholic – yeah, there is a difference apparently.
The first thought I had when I heard about the premise was, wow, this is wild. But then after thinking about it, and reading the many comments, both at DH and at XGH, I have some observation I wish to share.
1. The premise of the series is to debunk the common notion (in frum circles) that leaving Judaism ultimately leads to self destruction, to drugs parties and AIDS (I'm not even exaggerating the wording!). By introducing Sara as the first 'Kofer' DH shows a normal functioning mother and lawyer who left the comfort of Ultra Orthodoxy. Yet, on the other hand, many will argue that what is keeping her sanity and normalcy is, once again, religion. To them it is religion that keeps you from malfunctioning and even Christianity can function as a buffer between the natural animalistic tendency and a higher purpose. That argument wasn't settled yet.
2. Most people were bewildered at her choice of becoming Christian, a Meshumedes. The people I know that left, and I know a few, either had reason and critique to thank, or a host of emotional reasons that bars any form of restraint and structured religion. Choosing another religion runs contrary to the comfort classifications my mind has created to explain the phenomenon of leaving. Now I must understand her choice, I thought to myself. Not to criticize just to broaden my classification perhaps, or create another box in my mind to explain future meshumadim.
3. There is a huge difference between Christianity and any other religion, at least to one who grew up in a frum environment like, well, most of the commenters there. To be a 'goy' has plenty of negative connotations growing up, but eventually one gets to see many normal, successful and healthy goyim, and the indoctrination wears off – for the most. But then to be a 'Katolic', or a 'Christ' has ONLY negative connotations. From my first day on earth until today there was nothing good to associate with the word Christian. It always associated with an opposing religion, persecution, Galuchim who pry on the young and then preach against young and old. The only positive thing one can point out, Pope JP has also been tainted by his successor, it is as if they thrive in controversy. Yet I know many Christians, and perhaps Catholics too that I have only positive things to say about them, but I think of them as Goyim, or people, not Christian. That is why when confronted with a convert to Catholicism only the negative connotations pop up.
For that alone I'm glad that the interview took place and was posted for an open discussion. Reading it I realized where my own fears and xenophobia really come from. True, the church she belongs to has done some awful things for a very long time but that no longer is that case, and she, or any other living Christian today is not part of that. The fact that Sara had a different upbringing or background that allowed her to see Christianity for what it is worth – to her, and not for its historic wrongdoings, the fact that she shared it, discussed it and stood up for it made it easier for me to confront the mental classifications that automatically pop up when the C word is mentioned.

>any other living Christian today is not part of that
ReplyDeleteThat may be a bit over broad, there probably are some "fundamentalists" who do still want to kill the Jews.
We tend to place ourselves and others into categories.
We are right to be passionate and angry at the version of Christianity which wants to do away with Christ killers, and with its history of hate directed against us which according to Hitchens, led directly to the murder of 6 million Jews .
We are wrong however, if we stereo typify, and most of us, I believe, try not to.
(Pope JP, is that the guy who comes on these pages?)
As I've begun to question religion myself, I've been reading quite a few skeptical blogs (especially the ex-Mormon ones - I've always had a interest in America's biggest native religion) and yours is one that I return to frequently. I'm from a different background (Protestant), so I rarely comment, since I don't think there's much I could contribute.
ReplyDeleteBut this post was interesting and I enjoyed the interview. I was intrigued by the comment section, though, in which some people were upset that she would choose Catholicism, given the long history of anti-Semitism. While I'm definitely not denying that anti-Semitism still exists, the religious Christians I know deeply respect Judaism. I even know of a popular blog run by a young Modern Orthodox woman that has a large conservative Christian readership. But I did read somewhere that among the real hardcore fundie types, gays/lesbians and Muslims (and, to a lesser extent, feminists) have pretty much replaced Jews as the "enemy." So I guess that's still something to think about - replacing one object of fear and hatred with another.
Well, "Meshumadim", as you call them, have quite good career prospectives within the catholic church: Lustiger became cardinal in France, Edith Stein was canonised (=made a saint), let alone he-who-will-not-be-named who made it all the way to being God
ReplyDeleteRealistically, Christianity in it's modern form is probably the most rational and most ethical of any major religion.
ReplyDeleteI am happy to see Christianity discussed, although I know it is not the purpose of this blog. Like commentators here raised in a Jewish community, I had no say in being born into a Christian legacy. I hope that I can provide some relief to the Jewish community, that the Christians I personally know have extreme respect for Judaism and the community it contains, and work towards the erasure of any anti-semitism that stems from Christian history. I understand that this may not be the norm in the Christian community in America, and I am grateful for my perspective, and my profound love and respect for the Jewish people I love in my life. I hope a dialogue can develop in the world; it appears there is much more to be done on both sides, to view eachother as humans born into different circumstances. In many ways I envy the Jewish identity; the Christian lacks the same ethnic community, the same support. I hope to develop mutual respect, without the urging on either side to change your faith. And I hope that non-jewish readers can be welcome on this blog as friends seeking education and acceptance, and I offer my greatest respect and friendship in return.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was unwise for Hedyot to start with a kofer who was really a meshumedet. It could imply that the two are the same. I think it makes a heck of a lot of difference whether one is, for example, a Reform, Conservative, or even Modern orthodox Jew who does not believe in Torah mi'Sinai (a kofer) or a practicing Roman Catholic (a meshumedet). Is ultra-orthodoxy so messed up that people brought up in it think those two things are the same?
ReplyDelete--brought up Reform, now frummer but not that frum
very good point, shtreimel. It's a very striking phenomenon -- a UO Jew leaving orthodoxy for catholicism and it's bound to have an affect on the way some of us view christianity. What hasn't been explained as of yet, however, is why indeed she chose catholicism. If she is willing to be bound by the shackles of religion, why not stick with what you're born into?
ReplyDeletei have found most christians to be very respectful of judaism but i've also found the contingent that still thinks we're "christ killers"... cant we all just get along?!?
ReplyDeleteshalom
gp
I was born and raised a Catholic. I attended Catholic schools (in Bklyn) for 12 years. Never once in my life was I ever taught, nor was it indicated to me that the Jews were "christ killers". I think there is always a mystery or "old wives tales" when it comes to other cultures and relegions. I agree with wat manker said "can't we all just get along?" I think we all want the same in life, no matter what relegion we are.
ReplyDeleteAnon 10:09,
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you weren't told anything of that sort here in the US, but the people I grew up with, my own Grandparents could not say the same. No one can blame them for not distinguishing between Catholics when all they know about them is either rape or murder.
Education, that is what we all need.
HEY!! IT'S BEEN YEARS, BUT I FINALLY FOUND YOU, AND YOU'RE STILL WRITING!1
ReplyDeleteAvraham Abulfia a mediaeval kabalist held that even though Christianity is idolatary, at its center is a zadik.
ReplyDeleteThe major problem I see with all Christianity is Paul. It does not look to me that it was wise to put him into the cannon.(and in fact he was not for a few hundred years).
Maybe it is just that I am bias. And a look in chasidic writings does indicate there is something powerful about belief in itself.
But whatever version of Christianity it is, this probelm always comes up in my mind.
Haha!
ReplyDeleteYou think that is strange?
Check out this blog by a Breslover Catholic
named Aharon! You will like him.
http://aronbengilad.blogspot.com/